Episode 16: DezBaa’

In this episode, Marydale Ma speaks with DezBaa’, an actor, screenwriter, and filmmaker, whose spiritual journey is as layered and wide-ranging as her creative life. DezBaa’ shares how she grew up navigating between worlds — a Southern Baptist upbringing in rural New Mexico, a heritage she was slowly finding her way back to, and a deep imaginative life that would eventually pull her toward storytelling and film. She speaks openly about her path through faith, doubt, and discovery, and how her partner Shiloh’s invitation to a Kriya Yoga initiation in 2024 became something she hadn’t expected — a homecoming. Along the way she draws beautiful parallels between Navajo ancestral wisdom, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Gospels, reflecting on how the same essential truth seems to run through all of it. A warm, exploratory, and genuinely fresh conversation about belonging, identity, and what it means to return to yourself.

DezBaa’ (Diné and Basque, Spanish, and Mexican descent) is an actor, screenwriter, director, and indie film producer. A geologist by training with a degree from Amherst College and two MFAs in screenwriting and creative nonfiction from the Institute of American Indian Arts, DezBaa’ is also a licensed massage therapist and energy worker of more than two decades. Her creative work is rooted in a commitment to Indigenous storytelling, cultural advocacy, and community healing. She was initiated into Kriya Yoga in June 2024 alongside her partner Shiloh, and lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Marydale Ma: Welcome, beautiful souls. Welcome, welcome to Living in Joy. I’m so grateful you’ve chosen to join us today as we once again gather in sacred friendship, reflection, and love through the voices of women walking the path of Kriya Yoga.

Today we’re invited into a beautiful conversation about identity, belonging, creativity, and service, and the quiet ways that divine grace leads each of us home.

Before we begin, I’d appreciate it if we could all just arrive quietly into this space together. If it feels comfortable, go ahead and soften your gaze, perhaps close your eyes, and join me in a nice long deep breath. Exhaling with ha. Again, inhale. And exhale. As you gently allow your body to soften, your mind to quiet, and your heart to open.

Father, Mother, Beloved Lord, Sri Gurudev Paramahansa Hariharananda, Beloved Guruji Paramahansa Prajnanananda, and our Paramguru Paramahansa Yogananda, along with all the radiant masters of the Kriya lineage, we bow in gratitude for this sacred gathering. May this conversation unfold in truth, humility, wisdom, and love. May every word spoken today remind us that each soul is walking a sacred journey uniquely guided by divine grace. May we listen with open hearts. May we see one another with compassion. May we remember that every sincere seeker is lovingly being led home. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Father, Mother, God. Om Shantihi, Om Shantihi, Om Shantihi. Amen.

Oh, it’s wonderful, wonderful, wonderful to be together once again. And to reflect that there are moments in life when we begin to recognize that nothing’s been accidental. The experience that once seemed disconnected, when we came across new people on our path, when we received gifts, when we received challenges, all of this began to reveal a much deeper pattern for each and every one of us. And it’s as though Divine Mother was quietly weaving a tapestry all along that was invisible to us, to our eyes, to our hearts. And yet it was happening.

Sometimes we only recognize the beauty of that design when we pause long enough to look back. Today’s guest, you might recognize her because she’s kind of famous in her own way, has lived a rich life with creativity, service, and storytelling. As an accomplished actor, writer, filmmaker, and artist, she has helped to bring meaningful stories to life. Yet, beneath all of those beautiful expressions is something even deeper. It’s a deep, sincere heart of a seeker. And more recently, she discovered the sacred path of Kriya Yoga. And like so many of us found that the deepest journey is not outward, but inward.

So today we have the joy of exploring that unfolding together. Please let me welcome and introduce DezBaa’. Hello, hello, hello, Ma, welcome to you.

DezBaa’: Hi, thank you.

Marydale Ma: We’re so happy to have you today. It’s a true blessing and I’m so grateful that you chose to have this conversation. And I’d like to start, if you don’t mind, with your name. It is so unique and I dare say unusual. Please tell us, is this your birth name or was it bestowed upon you? And if so, by whom? And what does it mean?

DezBaa’: Yeah. My name is DezBaa’. It’s a name that was given to me by a Navajo elder. It’s Navajo. It means, according to my elder, it means she’s going on a raid, like going to war. The Baa’ part of most of the women’s names has something to do with war of some sort. Just like a warrior name.

And I adopted it as my performer name as an actor a few years ago, mainly, prior, primarily just as a performer. But the more people asked me — the specific reason was for a specific TV show because it’s about Navajo people. And I had been struggling with my name for a really long time since I was 12. And I just kind of felt a little like, don’t want to like, disingenuous in some ways of having this, even though it was a name that my parents gave me. Just it didn’t fit me, it didn’t fit like the the genre of this of this show. And so I decided to just adopt it as my performer name.

But when I told people about it, and they’re looking for my actual legal name, they’re like, we know you were in there, but we didn’t see your name. And I was like, well, because I changed it for the show. And so when I told them what it meant and that my elder had given it to me when I was three, they were like, can I just call you that instead? And I said, sure, that’s fine. So initially it kind of was like a nickname. It was a performer name that turned into a nickname, which then became how I identify myself because it was like as if I had grown into this person. At three years old, it didn’t really mean much to me. It was something else. It wasn’t my name then. And then as I grew older and I realized, you know, stepping into this role as an actor in this particular TV show, it started kind of being more meaningful. And yeah, so it was, it was kind of like a mix of things and it kind of reminds me of just how people were called, you know, you were given a name and then there is the name that you call yourself. And then especially in a lot of cultures, there’s the name that only very few people know. And it’s kind of like that identifier. It’s like the secret name.

And it just, I guess it’s a part of like belonging in a lot of ways, not only to yourself, but amongst your community.

Marydale Ma: Oh, that’s beautiful. Thank you so much. That truly gives us the depth of the name itself and also how you’ve honored it and feel more of yourself. I think that’s just, that’s very, very beautiful.

And before we actually get going about your creative work, your spiritual practice, or where life has brought you to this day, I’d love to introduce the little girl who loved to perform at a very young age while growing up in beautiful New Mexico. What was it like for you? And who was that little girl before the world came to know the woman you are today?

DezBaa’: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Only because I have been actually thinking about that lately, like who who was the kid that I was that brought me here to this particular place? I would say I was the youngest of three children and I was essentially kind of like by myself. My parents had us fairly far apart, loved to play outdoors. We lived out in a rural area where it was like, very sandy, very sand dunes.

The part of New Mexico where I’m from is a part of a Rio Grande rift basin. So it was the shallow inland sea. So it was during the times of the dinosaurs in the Jurassic era. And so all these sand dunes, not very good roads to drive on. So I’d go play out there with the juniper trees and the bugs and make little mud puddles. Always outdoors a lot.

And loved to imagine, had a huge imagination. I wanted to have like my own movie theater. I wanted to have my own market. I wanted to have my own post office. And I tried to like create things. So I’d take like an old box and I would cut it up and I would tape it up and put markers and, you know, make like a vending machine.

So I would say pretty by myself, but very imaginative and a little bit of a storyteller even then. But it took me decades to realize that part of that little girl in the future.

Because as you’re growing up, especially in this place, very rural, there’s only usually like one way out. And it was what they call the Los Alamos National Laboratories. And so like the only pathway towards success was to be financially stable. And so there wasn’t really like a lot of emphasis on art. There wasn’t a lot of emphasis on like, follow your dreams, follow your heart. It was just like, what can sustain you and what can, how can you survive? And it never really fit in. Although I do love science.

My older sibling chose marine biology of all things and became a professor in California. My middle sister became a registered nurse, and so society kind of sort of steered towards science. And I always try to figure out my place in the world, even when I was a young kid, because I was always like Scotty’s little sister, Shannon’s little sister, but I was never my own person. And I kind of rebelled against that and I really hated it. So I think I’ve always tried to figure out like, what could it be that’s uniquely, in mine.

And after I had gotten my geology degree out in Massachusetts and come back to New Mexico, I worked as a geologist, you know, the universe, I guess, found me and took — through my sister — a pathway to this film industry and the storytelling. In a show, in a nutshell. I know you were asking about me being a little kid, but I loved watching television. I would wake up and sneak out of, you know, going to bed and try to watch the late, late shows and things that they had on at late at night. And so I just love watching television. I loved seeing the little people that were trapped inside the box. And I wished that I could be them.

Marydale Ma: I love that. And that is obviously part of your destiny because you truly had a passion for it. And the freedom that it takes for little kids just to create and be alone and have all this imaginary world is a very wonderful nurturing soil for someone like you to ultimately become a storyteller. So again, Divine Mother took care of you from the get-go. That’s wonderful.

And I know you’ve shared that although you are Diné, part of the Navajo Nation, you didn’t really grow up deeply immersed in many of your cultural traditions. How has your relationship with your heritage unfolded over the years? Has it become something you’ve continued discovering throughout your life?

DezBaa’: Yeah. It’s so — I knew about being Navajo and I was like seven, I went to Montessori school and they don’t believe in participating in Halloween, at least mine did for sure. And so we had to choose countries that we were going to represent and we had to research them, find out their flag, clothing, food, just a really good option. And so the two that I researched, because I was there for only two years, kindergarten, first — one was Mexico because my mom’s Mexican and the other was the Navajo Nation.

That was a little bit trickier and trying to figure out — it it confounded me to understand like, well, where is the Navajo Nation?

It’s within the country and it’s within within the borders of three different states. But it is a sovereign nation. It is essentially kind of treated like its own country. And so my mom made me a traditional outfit. My mom knows how to sew. And we worked on trying to create the flag. And so I knew about my culture, but I never really like fully lived into it. And it blew my mind that, again, like there was this other nation within a nation that was essentially there prior to our own United States formation, that was there prior to anything, that was prior there to Spanish colonization.

Had been there forever. But the formation of the nation itself — we call it Diné Bikéyah, the Diné land — but the nation itself hadn’t formed until after, you know, there were oil reserves that were there and trying to like basically extract resources from our land. And that was what became the Navajo Nation Council, et cetera.

But there’s a lot of different varied layers of it. So I knew who I was and then I had my name, DezBaa’, since I was three. And it was just kind of like, am I CIB? I had, you know, everything, I was an enrolled member of, enrolled citizen of the nation. But then when I had come back after leaving the East Coast, it was a stronger calling for me. I was afraid. I was afraid that I was going to be considered an outsider. And I was a little bit.

But I remember going to one of the trainings that they have when you’re, you know, you’re a newbie employee. And everybody introduced themselves, you know, in Navajo — you introduce yourself with your four different clans for your two sides of your family, your mother, your father, and then both grandparents. And I spoke up, I was the last, last person. And I said, I know my clans, but I can’t say them in Navajo.

And the elder that was conducting the training said, will you return to us?

And it sunk in that despite my feeling of not belonging, that nothing could erase who I was. And I needed to hear that because I was so worried that I didn’t know the language. I didn’t know the culture very well, but I knew who I was, as a person, as a human being.

And so I started to try to learn more about the weaving, learned how to make moccasins, learned some of the stories. I have a friend of mine who’s a medicine man who tried very hard to get me to apprentice with him. I’m like, I’m not there at that stage of my life yet, but was very much trying to, you know, bring me into ceremonies, the traditional Navajo ceremonies. And, you know, I was asking him questions.

I took a Navajo language course at UNM Gallup there to learn how to introduce myself in my own language and to learn how to read, because Navajo wasn’t a written language until like the 50s or somewhere around there. And it’s very phonetic in some ways. So a lot of people who are fluent speaking may not know how to write, they may not be literate in the language because it’s so fairly new. But I’m glad we have that because then it helps people like myself, you know, even though Navajo is like a second language. I can at least try to sound things out and then it just takes, you know, perfecting your ear to understand how to make those sounds with your, with your voice.

So there was a diligence in me to learn, especially when I came back, because I felt like it was my responsibility to do so. And because my dad didn’t learn as well — I felt like there was a little bit of shame in him not knowing. So it actually brought out in him his own desire and fearlessness in trying to learn. And that made me feel really good that I could be like a bridge back into the culture. And my own daughter wants to learn.

And, you know, it’s hard, it’s hard. You can’t learn it from Duolingo. You can’t learn it from YouTube. You have to really have someone there to practice with you to know how to say things correctly. So there’s like this deep desire, right, that’s placed in you to want to reach out. And then also like somewhat of a limitation because I don’t have that like right off hand.

But it doesn’t negate who I am in terms of, it’s not a shame that I have of not knowing. It’s just a circumstance that I’m trying to rebuild slowly. And I’m trying to do so authentically. People used to try to hold it over my head that I didn’t know how to speak or, you know, that I didn’t grow up on the res. And I’m like, that just was not how the cards landed for me. And I’m okay with that. And I mean, it it — I’ve learned so much even from like even working with Kriya Yoga understandings that are even new to me.

But trying to have the heart and desire to want to learn, I think is like the biggest thing for me, rather than like having perfect pronunciation. I hear, I hear Navajo and it and I — I almost like, I don’t hear it here, I hear it here in my heart. And I may not know what’s being said specifically, but I feel like there’s there really is a visceral understanding of what’s being spoken. And I don’t want to say that’s good enough for me, but for right now, I’m okay with it. I’m at peace with it.

Marydale Ma: Oh, that’s a very beautiful story. Thank you so much for sharing. And I can imagine that many of the women who are listening along with us today understand in their heart what it feels like to slowly discover pieces of ourselves that may have been quietly waiting all along.

DezBaa’: Thank you.

Marydale Ma: And that’s truly what it sounds like for you, that again, it’s going home. It’s wonderful. And as you were speaking, it just resonated so much with me, the journey of Sanskrit, which is the same thing as Kriyavans who were not born in the culture, growing up, memorizing chants and scripture. We’re really kind of at a loss and you cannot listen to it on Duolingo. You just can’t. There are many of us that just have to love ourselves the best we can and move forward. So I really honor you and appreciate your desire. That’s a very beautiful thing.

Now, as I was preparing for our conversation today, one thought kept returning to me over and over about you. Sometimes, long before we consciously begin a spiritual journey, our soul is already quietly being prepared. Looking back in your life, childhood, teen years, young womanhood, were there moments that you began to recognize as invitations from the divine, things that were kind of gently calling to you, moving in the wind and guiding you toward a deeper spiritual practice beyond your native heritage, perhaps experiences that helped shape the woman that you would ultimately become one day. And you’re still growing. Yeah.

DezBaa’: Yeah. My parents somehow found the Southern Baptist Church in their journey.

Marydale Ma: I’ll be darned.

DezBaa’: I have always wondered, I’m like, how? Because my mom grew up Catholic. And she told me that her father, you know, made sure that they got confirmed and went to — and don’t think they even went to catechism, but he made sure that they got confirmed and went to Holy Communion just in case. But he himself didn’t believe that he needed anybody to intercede between him and God.

And I thought that was very profound. And then, so she didn’t really grow up Catholic, Catholic. And then she met my dad and my dad, again, he was adopted by a white family. And so he was raised that way. I think that the story is that his adopted mother, my grandma, was an Assemblies of God missionary, I think, at the Navajo reservation. So he was raised, you know, knowing about God. And I don’t want to say he was like raised in the church. But I think then my mom said that it was through his mother, my grandmother, his her mother-in-law, that she found the idea of Jesus Christ being her Lord and Savior.

And it was through that connection that then my parents, I think, were trying to find a church nearby where they live now. And I think that the only one that they found that felt right for them was the Southern Baptist Church. Because I guess it just felt right to them. So I grew up in that church.

I was there since, well, my mom was pregnant. So I grew up in there, went to vacation Bible school. So I’ve been learning and reading the Bible my whole life. I have never actually read through the whole Bible, at any point in my life, but I’ve read enough scriptures to know the things that, you know, really resonated with me. But looking back, cause there was always definitely like this rebelliousness of like, this can’t — how can, how can all of this stuff mean anything?

And, you know, one of the passages, of course, like, you know, and it was always a struggle between being like a good girl and like, you know, being the brimstone and fire of like being like a bad kid or a bad person. And then I’m going to go to hell. And so there’s a lot of struggle with that.

And I just, you know, I definitely remember I was like eight years old when I accepted Christ into my life. And it was just such a profound, like, it was — I don’t even know how to describe it, but I know I was crying. I told my mom, like, I think, I think this is, this is it. Like, you know, I’m feeling like this is the Holy Spirit coming in onto me and, you know, telling me that this is my path. And so then I got baptized a little while later.

And, but, you know, teenage years falling away from the church. And then you realize that the church isn’t always the church and that there were issues and the people, and there was a falling out with my family. It’s just, you know, people wanting to do things that didn’t seem necessarily all that healthy. And so it really made my mom super depressed. I was like, how can people who claim to be godly be treating my mom like this? So we, we, we essentially kind of diverged and moved away from that and went to a missionary church that was essentially for Native Americans. The Indian church is what they called it. So we started going there because they would meet outside. They would meet outside under the trees. We met near river and it felt right. It felt good. And so my parents stayed there for a really, really long time. And then again, the same old kinds of like, you know, dissonance, rearing their ugly heads. And so.

So for a really long time, you know, just gave up reading the Bible, gave up thinking that any of that was real, gave up thinking that, like, you know, I don’t believe in this very much anymore. I’d still pray and I would still, you know, but I was questioning a lot.

And so. Fast forward to several years — my partner, Shiloh, who’s also a Kriyavan, just said, hey, I’ve been looking into doing some meditation again. I’m going to go to this initiation. I’d love for you to join me if it seems like this is a good fit for you. And I’m like, where did this come from? I mean I was like, because sometimes he just has like these, out of it, they seem completely out of nowhere. Going to take a sip of my water.

Just kind of come out of nowhere. Like, okay, I guess this is what we’re doing. But I did look into it. And I was a little skeptical, I will say I was skeptical. I’m like, I’ve never heard of this.

And I’ve, you know, actually, honestly, growing up, my parents, although they’re very open, very open people for being Southern Baptists. My brother, my brother is actually transgendered and was gay first initially. So that whole thing, like we’ve just always been very open, very accepting, very loving, unconditional love to the point of heartache, heartbreak. But when I started talking to them about chakras, cause I’m a massage therapist, you know, that was like, you know — we weren’t sure about Hare Krishnas. We were kind of like, it was everything that wasn’t Christian, like labeled, was kind of off limits. And so that was another struggle for me.

But again, my parents are very open. We started learning more about yoga, started learning about more of chakras and things like that, as I was learning more about my massage therapy and energy work — I’m an energy worker as well. But anyway, so I wasn’t sure about this. This seemed a little bit, whew, that was, this was going to be like a deep dive. So I researched it as much as I could, because actually there, to me, there wasn’t — I didn’t know as much as I know now about what’s out there in the internet. And you really couldn’t because you’re not supposed to know there’s certain things. But anyways, but one thing that somebody said on some kind of like review board was, you know, the guru will know what you need and it’s up to you to like, trust that, or something.

And I had to sit with that for a little bit because like, how am I supposed to trust a guru to know what I need? Who doesn’t even know me?

And I thought about it. And then I was just like, huh? My friend was like, ooh, this sounds like it’s so exciting. You should totally do this. And I was like, I thought about it, but then I thought about it from the perspective of me being an expert in my field as a massage therapist — that I was essentially bestowed or given a certain gift with my hands and my knowledge and my wisdom to work with people and their bodies. In addition to skills and learning and teaching that I’ve, you know, mastered over several, you know, years. And oftentimes when someone comes to me, they have like, there’s this vulnerability and there’s this humility that comes with them wanting me to help them and facilitate. And if they’re willing to listen to, you know, we’re working in concert together with the listening and me listening, then I’m hoping that they would be willing to trust me as well to say, maybe this is what needs to be done.

And then when I landed on that, and I was like, okay, okay, let’s do this. And so I signed up for the initiation. And I wanna say I was blown away, but even blown away is not even like the right words to say. I was deeply, profoundly —

It was what I had needed my whole life growing up that I felt like was missing. And all the scripture verses and everything that I had learned while I was going to church to be a good Christian kind of washed over. And it really was like renewal. And it really was like this spiritual baptism that was even more so than what I had experienced as a child.

And I became like, so in love with that, that I had returned home.

And it was through — and my partner — and, you know, in so many ways, in so many different layers of my life and in who I am, this man, Shiloh, had essentially returned me to myself in a lot of different ways.

And, you know, not only to my culture — we had gone to Mexico for my birthday or to Texas. And I had a profound moment on the border between Texas and Mexico, right on the Rio Grande, Rio Bravo, Rio Bravo. Yeah. Border.

And then this time again was just like, you know, the listening and that, you know, God sends people to retrieve us. And like the idea of the shepherd going out to find the lost sheep, essentially. But we can have all of those types of moments that we read about in the Bible or, you know, I’m learning about the Bhagavad Gita and the — and all those, cause it’s completely foreign to me still. But I find a lot of parallels in all of these different scriptures. And then also with the culture of the Navajo people. And so finding out about who I am, right.

Is, is, is — all of it’s like happening at the same time. You know, a lot of times people talk about wanting to — they have like this love and this romance with Native American culture and indigenous and ancestral wisdom. But my thing lately, especially because I’ve realized that there’s so many parallels with the Bhagavad Gita, Kriya knowledge, Navajo cultural knowledge, even the parables and what you find in the Bible. And now with Odyssey, the Greek mystics, everybody has essentially like the same message. Of like detachment, you know, love, honoring, discipline. And I see just how beautifully orchestrated it is in the universe through these different cultures and their stories.

If we would only just listen. But that’s why it’s there, for thousands of years later, for us to rediscover again and again and again.

And we’re always in that process of learning. And I’m just so grateful for those people and, you know, the teachings in a new way, in a new light, and then understanding, no matter which way you go to anyone’s ancestral wisdom, we all carry that ancestral wisdom within us. We carry our ancestors with us as well. It’s in our DNA. It’s in who we are as human beings. It’s a part of our evolution from being of this land, but because we are a part of this. We’re a part of Mother Earth. We’re a part of Mother Nature.

And all of that wisdom is in there. So when we are thinking about exploring, going inside and clearing out, so that we can actually have capacity to listen to that — you know, we can find, I don’t want to say the answers in all of these different texts, but I do remember it was that Jesus says, you know, for those who have ears to hear and those who have eyes to see. And I was actually just reading that in the Ten Commandments of Yoga. And the disciples are asking, you know, like, why are you always talking in parables? Why are we talking in stories? Because it’s easy to remember those types of things. Sometimes it’s easy to remember the stories. And that to me is fundamentally part of the reason why I kind of came back to storytelling.

And now it’s my job to kind of figure out how am I going to move from this desire in my heart to be a storyteller, or to be a good listener, essentially, to being a part of that, and also utilizing my ego just enough that I am not fearful that I shouldn’t have a place, that I become a part of and find that balance of being a part of, being a vessel, being in service of the story to continue that pathway for more people, so that I can possibly be like Shiloh has been for me to kind of guide me back to myself. How can I be like that for other people? Cause it takes us, it takes each individual person on this planet to guide one person possibly. We don’t have to guide millions. Just — I feel like maybe just one, one other person.

Marydale Ma: Beautiful. Well, you know, it’s so wonderful to hear someone speak from the freshness of discovery. And Kriya truly is a discovery. And probably the thing that is most important for us as Kriyavans to recognize and hold in our heart always is the thread that goes through every philosophy and religion since the beginning of time. And that’s truth, and that God resides within all of us, alive and well. And so we are very much the same rather than different. And Kriya emphasizes that, as I’m sure you know, with Yogananda, for instance, his beautiful gardens here in Pacific Palisades, every religion is represented there, because we don’t want anyone to feel that Kriya is something special only for a few. Kriya is for everyone because it’s the direct path to God and to soul consciousness, as Hariharananda has taught us.

So, you know, it’s just so refreshing to hear you and to know how touched you’ve been sincerely by Guruji and all of our masters, because they’re alive and well with us. And sometimes the beginners remind all of us what first inspired our journey on the Kriya path. And it’s just, it’s hard to even describe it.

And I know that you also shared with me that just recently your parents spontaneously took initiation into Kriya. Share with us how that came to pass and what it means to you.

DezBaa’: Yeah, they did.

Yeah, give me one second. Let me grab something here real quick.

Yeah, my parents — another sip of water. Yeah, my parents recently got initiated, I want to say like maybe a month ago. June 22nd. Maybe not even that long ago. Yeah, my parents did. I was, I was pleasantly surprised. My mom loves to read. She is, she’s a huge book person. She’ll read — I don’t know how many religious texts. I mean, if she had access to like the religious texts, I’m sure she would probably do that. Neither of my parents graduated from college. They met at the university and my mom got pregnant. My dad ended up having to take care of them and had to quit school, and then got drafted into the Navy, and then that was it. And then they just never decided to kind of return back to going to school and finishing. But I have a feeling that if both of them had, my dad probably would have been a photographer, writer, poet — I found that out later. And my mom probably would have been a theologian. She could have even, I would think that she would have probably gotten even like a doctorate in religious studies. She’s just, the house is just covered in all kinds of history, world history, texts and books and all kinds of other stuff.

So what I figured I would do is that anytime that I got a book at initiations or at intensives, I would find something that might be in the Christian realm. And I kind of slipped it to my mom and I said, here, look, this is what our Guru says about, you know, the Ten Commandments, or about the Beatitudes. I think that’s the last one that I got for her. I said, look, this is really interesting. I said, you can borrow it and I’ll pick it up later. So I’ve lent her several books I myself haven’t had a chance to read yet. And I’ve asked her, I said, did you read them? She’s like, oh yeah. She’s like, it was really good, it was really fascinating.

And every time that I had a chance to just kind of like tell them about my experience, especially if she had questions, or especially when I’d come home after having a conversation with Shiloh about, you know, any one thing — we always have philosophical conversations. And I would tell her about them, or tell my dad about them, or like some kind of new found epiphany that I had. Or especially this one recently about how I saw parallels with Navajo culture and the ceremonies that happened there. Even the ceremony — I don’t know what it’s called, but the ceremony where you light, I don’t know, it probably — it’s the one where you do the jingling of the bell and you have the light, that one.

Marydale Ma: The Aarati, right, right.

DezBaa’: Yeah, that one. I’m like, there’s actually something similar in Navajo ceremony. And I’m just like, wow, like, this is so cool. Like, just fascinated with this. And so I would tell them.

And then I did say that, you know, we’re having our initiation soon. I said, would you guys mind just like at least going to the public talk? At least can you go to that? I’m like, you guys don’t have to get initiated but at least just, if you have any questions, this is where you would ask them. Like, if you have any — I said, feel free to ask any and everything. I said, trust me, we ask all kinds of questions. Whenever the Guru says it’s time to ask a question and stuff, it’s like he’ll answer as many, however many questions he possibly can. And you know, I love the openness of Kriya in that way. There’s no end to whatever questions that you have. You can ask and feel okay with doing that.

And so they went. And they really, really liked it. And they really liked the acharya.

And, you know, so I think they after — we had talked about it when I came home after that day. I said, just let me know. Let me know what you feel like, you know. And they said, well, we’ll let you know. And I said, okay. My parents live an hour away from where we have an initiation. And I said, well, just let me know by, you know, seven o’clock in the morning or whatever, if you’re thinking about it, so I could let, you know, our center leader Andrea know.

And so sure enough, they said, we’re on the road. I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, okay. So I had to like quickly help and, you know, facilitate everything, had to make sure I got over there, made sure that they knew where they were going and the directions and everything. It was a completely last minute decision, I think on their part. But I am grateful because, my mom is gonna be 80 this year. My dad is gonna be 79.

Marydale Ma: Woohoo! Great.

DezBaa’: So, I mean, just — this is what I love about my parents so much is that they are, from what people like to say, the boomer range, but they are just so open to like experiencing new things. Maybe not their Italian food. They will order the same thing every time they go to an Italian restaurant.

But when it comes to this, like, to me, these types of things, like, you know, they’re like, okay. And it has become such a fertile learning ground between my 13-year-old and my parents, who are, you know, on their way to being octogenarians, and myself, and just this wonderful dynamic of the young teaching the older, and me also in the middle becoming this elder myself. And like, what are the things that we, you know, remember and get reborn again and again with a renewing of our mind if we’re willing to at any point in time.

And so it’s just a matter of like encouraging. It encourages me, also to be like the kind of person that I want to be when I grow up. And just to know the places where my own maternal grandmother was at her age. And my mom is now surpassing that and realizing, you know, yeah, you can be as young as you want to be as your body is, you know, getting older. It really is just a matter of like your mental thoughts and like where you want to be and where you want to land at that point. And yeah, my parents did inspire me in that way. I’m like, wow.

Marydale Ma: I love that. And of course, Kriya is based on meditation. And Guruji will tell us meditate more, meditate more, meditate more. There’s just something you can’t read about meditation because it’s a living entity. And the more we practice, the deeper we go into it. How has your daily Kriya practice begun to influence the way you move through ordinary life? Has it changed the way you experience relationships, work, or even yourself?

DezBaa’: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, I want to say that I’m still working on the discipline, I will be honest. But I would say like, you know, if I if I don’t get the full hour — and I’m talking like the full hour, like the full cycle — if I can’t get that in every day, then at least it’s like some form of meditation throughout, whether it’s like a bow or just by trying to be conscious, only aware of my breathing. And whether it’s at a stoplight, especially, or, you know, someone’s trying to cut me off, I’ve actually found that it has reminded me, to be in the small things that I do, the small things that happen.

But especially, you know, like it’s it’s been a bit much with my 13-year-old lately, I will say. And then also my ex-husband is moving from three hours away, living on the reservation. He’s not Navajo, but he was living out there near where I used to live and is now moving to the city that we’re both in, in Santa Fe. And so trying to wrangle this — I don’t want to use the term broken family, but like, you know, we were separated in a way and we were trying to do the best. And then over the course of like the last two years or so that I’ve been doing the meditation, it has really helped in the way I’m interacting with him, in being more patient, trying to remind myself to be more kind, because our relationship was not good at all, like, which is the reason why we separated.

And then also to my relationship with Shiloh, it’s just like has leaps and bounds, created a new couple-dom between us two. But especially with my kid, not falling into old patterns and programs that I had had growing up. And really allowing me to be more patient with myself so that I could be more patient with others. And really understanding more what it means to be grounded.

Marydale Ma: You know, that’s one of the quiet miracles of our spiritual practice. The outer world may look exactly the same, yet everything begins to feel different from within. It’s, you know, using the word magical might be a little overkill to some of the listeners, but believe me, I feel like it is true magic.

And I also in my own life have found that it absolutely confirms what Lao Tzu wrote in the Tao Te Ching, that you can’t tell the dancer from the dance or the poet from the poem. Because once you really understand Kriya, you become a yogi, you don’t practice yoga, you don’t practice meditation. Your breath is your practice 24-7.

And I’m sure now that you’ve been practicing for two years and are still new upon the path — don’t you recognize that your life is becoming more of a meditation and that you’re connecting to something even greater that you’ve not been aware of all of this time, meaning that you can really not tell where you end and divinity begins?

DezBaa’: Yeah, and I think I was kind of like alluding to that. How you phrased it is essentially kind of like what I was saying, you know. I connected something — I felt like I was trying to run away from myself when I was younger. And I really was because it just — I mean, if I had more time to kind of elaborate, but it’s just like there was a running away in some ways like it didn’t fit because I didn’t understand.

And, you know, it’s kind of like that, that, that part where, you know, you can read all the books, you can get all the knowledge, you can be thrown all the verses, you can be a part of the church, you can know all the right moves, you can know all the right chants and the mantras, you can know all the right things to do. But there’s that moment when it finally just like clicks. And I think that that’s what this has been like for me.

Like the washing of the feet and the discipleship that, you know, I had witnessed that in the church that I grew up in. And I knew what it was like to be in service of. But it was very — what I found and what I saw was very performative. And what I experienced in my initiation and everything else was like, this is what this was for. Because carrying that knowledge and that lineage unbroken, essentially through acharyas, through the Gurus, through our lineage was, it wasn’t necessarily performative. It was like a living testament, a living practice of something that had been going on for thousands of years. And it was not disassociated from its meaning and the action. It was a yoga. It was truly a yoga.

In the sense of like, I’m still saying that we carry our ancestors with us all the time. You know, they will feel our joy, they will feel our sorrow, they will feel all of these things as we are a living testament to them as well and carrying that past with us. And so it felt like that same thing of like the ancestors and the acharyas being the vessels of that lineage and that knowledge. And it’s like you you can feel that spirit moving through the vessel.

And so when I think of like my smaller purpose as a human, as me, DezBaa’, to the purpose of storytelling, and then also combining that with the bigger purpose of life and who I am as a human being in this world, combining those things — it’s like, I’m still struggling to figure that out. And how do I do that? And I would — this is where I would really love the divine intervention and the big aha moment, but maybe it’ll come in small things.

But I just see every day, you know, sometimes you forget about it, you know, like you’re taking a sip of Coke and it’s like, I remember — it’s not, you know, you try to tell yourself it’s not me drinking. It’s, it’s part of the universe and God. And there’s like that union and that yoga of all the things and aspects that we’re doing. And even the things that I’m saying, I’m trying to remind myself that it’s not so much me, me. But it’s how this person, this outer shell, is being able to receive certain things so that I am actually also being a part of this whole story. So I’m noticing things like that and trying to be more cognizant of both like this outer shell of me and then also the inner work that is being done through me.

And trying to find that balance between, you know, I think that my ego tends to be more fearful than it is. It’s like, well, here I am. And it kind of seems like maybe that’s counterintuitive because I’m an actor. But it really is just like, I’m trying to be out there, not for my sake necessarily, but I’m trying to be out there essentially kind of the same way, like I was saying with Shiloh or anybody else — it’s like, because I feel like this is a calling to be a part of the lineage the same way as I see the acharya is to be a teacher.

Marydale Ma: Beautiful. Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, this has just been a delight and I love your enthusiasm, your wisdom and your grace, and your tone definitely is drenched in love. And we’re so happy to have you as part of our Kriya family.

I’m struck by how often this conversation has returned to one theme, and that’s home. Coming home to your heritage, to your gifts, to your service, coming home to your own heart, and perhaps through Kriya, coming home to the divine presence that’s always been right there within you from day one.

What a beautiful, beautiful journey. And DezBaa’, every guest who joins us answers this little question in a different way. And I love it because it shows how many different souls there are that can express joy in their lives. And as you know, we call our podcast Living in Joy. As you sit here with us today, what does living in joy mean to you? Has your understanding of joy changed as your spiritual life has deepened?

DezBaa’: I want to say yes. I want to say that — trying not to make this even longer — but like, I want to say that like, I struggled with a lot of anxiety, depression growing up. I feel like a lot of that was generational trauma, but also just programming from, you know, just how we’re supposed to survive and be small, especially as a person who is a minority and a woman. How do you play small and don’t speak up and don’t be a part of — so that you can survive?

And I’m finding more that as I love myself with compassion and I’m able to be more loving towards myself and really truly taking care of me, in the sense of like, I have a responsibility, not just to myself, but I have a responsibility to my family to be at my best. And not in this kind of like martyred way, a lot of times I want to say mothers tend to do, without really realizing it, or like even kind of resentment because, you know, you tell someone a million times and then no one listens.

Really trying to be in service and love because that is what God has provided me to do, as a mother, as a woman, as a human being. And how do I be in a place of love and of service — that really truly brings me joy when it is given completely and fully with the capacity that I have, and growing that capacity so that it is divine love that is flowing through me. And that brings me joy, and that allows me to be joyful, like even looking at a cloud and what a beautiful, beautiful world that I can help to create for myself and for others.

Marydale Ma: Beautiful. And what you’ve shared truly reminds us that joy isn’t dependent upon perfect circumstances at all. It grows from remembering who we truly are. And that’s one of the main messages of Kriya. Who are you? And once we remember that we are divinity, that we are Namaste, everything in our life begins to make much more sense, as you’ve so beautifully and elegantly shared with us today. And we thank you so much for sharing your heart with openness, humility, and wisdom. It’s been a journey of authenticity and we truly celebrate your life. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

It has been my joy to spend a little bit of time with you. And one of the things that’s touched me most about today is realizing that your life has never really been about choosing between your creativity and your spirituality, between your serving the community and deepening your inner life. You’ve really showed us that you are honoring your heritage as you discover new expressions of yourself, DezBaa’. That’s very beautiful.

And your story kind of reminds us that when we sincerely seek God, he doesn’t ask us to become someone else, ever. She gently reveals the deepest truth of who we’ve always been. And your life beautifully reminds us of that in all your experiences. So thank you again for reminding us that coming home is not simply returning to a place. It’s returning to the divine presence that’s always lived within us. We’re so grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you again.

DezBaa’: Thank you.

Marydale Ma: And we hope our paths will cross with you soon. And now just a reflection before we say goodbye from our Guruji. He has written that love all as the power of God. Serve all as the power of God. See all as the children of God, for this is the path to goodness.

And now to our beautiful listeners around the world, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us for another sacred conversation on Living in Joy. Every woman who joins us reminds us that there are many paths, many stories, cultures, life experiences, and that the longing of every sincere heart is exactly the same — to know God, to love more deeply, to live more consciously, and to discover the joy that’s always been waiting within.

If today’s conversation with our beautiful guest has touched your heart, we warmly invite you to subscribe to Living in Joy on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. Please share these conversations with your family, your friends, and anyone whose heart may need a little encouragement today. Together, we’re creating a circle of women all around the world who are supporting one another on this beautiful journey of awakening.

Until we meet again, may God and Gurus bless you. May Divine Mother lovingly guide your every step. May your meditation become ever deeper, your heart ever more open, and may you continue discovering the quiet joy of living each day in God’s presence. Jai Guru.